Greendaily.com,

First off thanks for agreeing with me. I've lost subscribers because I've offended them and they so strongly disagreed with me. Instead they made my point stronger. I have a good friend that has a hybrid and she loves it but she also flys some place for business once a month. She did not buy the hybrid to be "green" she bought it to save money. Those that buy an SUV don't buy it to spit in the face of those that are green either. I'm a shade of green and more green than those I know with hybrids. I think we really need to support all of those trying to go green and do something.

http://greenandcleanmom.blogspot.com
Sommer

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I just bought an SUV (a Toyota FJ Cruiser), purely as a recreational and grand-touring vehicle. I work from home, hence I have no daily commute. I've chosen to live in a relatively dense city, hence all other necessary trips are quite short. Most significantly, I ride a bike everywhere I can and my daily lifestyle is built around the bike, not the SUV. In fact, part of what prompted me to buy an SUV was so that when I'm on a road trip, I can have my bike with me and use it for short local trips.

I live in British Columbia, Canada, so snow covered mountain roads are inevitable. What's more, this SUV is a replacement for an '89 Toyota Camry (compact car), and the fuel economy is EXACTLY the same, perhaps even a bit better on the FJ.

People might be quick to judge, but frankly the fastest judgment is the least meaningful. A car is a car... unless you decide to build your daily lifestyle around a zero-emissions mode like biking or walking, you're fooling yourself.

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Not so fast!

First of all, those who say they do not like to be judged, often mean that they do not want others to ANALYZE their situation. Nevertheless, if you claim to care about the environment and that you do your best (or even better than others) you need accept to be held against the light of critical scrutiny in regard to your ecological impact.

No individual`s situation is easy to analyze or compare with others.

Cut and dry: A SUV is generally a large, heavy, highly powered vehicle with a rather inefficient engine when it comes to gasoline consumption per vehicle (not per horsepower). The utility value of an SUV cannot be denied and today`s modern lives are difficult to live if you refuse the transportation conveniences offered by those sort of vehicles. Needless to say, much of this life-style developed as a result of the development and marketing of these vehicles. Soccer Moms may have existed before the minivan or SUV, but it really took off after it became more convenient with the help of the development of SUVs and minivans.

To continue this further, the problem with the SUV is neither the U, nor the V. The problem is the S. Utility vehicles exist for a long time and have existed way before the SUV came along. The first Landrovers had little horse power and sucessfully crossed the Sahara loaded with survival gear and equipment. The problem today is that we expect to drive such vehicles as if they are sports cars or luxury vehicles. It makes them heavy, they are driven hard, and are therefor inefficient.

The other problem is luxury. Before the SUV, there were station wagons. Other than 4-wheel drive, they could do what an SUV can do. Sure, less conveniently, less room, less sporty, less heavy, just as inefficient, and with less status. The large station wagon disappeared and with it the willingness to pack kids tight into a car, load the roof with stuff, etc. We have gotten lazy and spoiled.

We have gotten used to the SUV as part of our life-style. If you choose it please accept that you chose to live with a vehicle that is less efficient than others. Keep it for a long time, drive it as rarely as possible, drive it defensively, don`t drive it alone. There are many ways you can drive it more efficiently. You may not be able to live your life AS CONVENIENTLY without a SUV, but most likely you could do it. Much of it was done before the SUV. In the long run, once gas gets to be over $6 per gallon, you may say good-bye to your home in the mountains and say "hello again" to the ways of living your parents or grand-parents were used to. I predict that large efficient utility vehicles will come back. Until then you may have to wait and suffer hearing that your choices are poor in regard to the environment (even if they are understandable in regard to modern life and today's perception of feasibility or safety).

BTW, the Honda Element is large, relatively efficient, and has 4-wheel drive (which you really only need if you live in the mountains of hills). It won`t give you a boost in status amongst those who still think that SUVs are cool though.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. We will not reduce our ecological impact by 80% without ending most of what we like to do in North America. You can continue convincing yourself that what you do is NEEDED, or you can look at what you do rationally and separate WANTS from NEEDS and begin changing. It won't be as comfortable as it was. Get used to it - The world is changing.

Karsten
--
http://polluteless.com
Practical Advice to Pollute Less

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Not so fast!

First of all, those who say they do not like to be judged, often mean that they do not want others to ANALYZE their situation. It is wide-spread spread in North America to reject the questioning of and looking at your neighbor's habits by others. It has pros and cons. On the positive, more people can do whatever they feel like and that can be good. On the other hand, more people can do whatever they feel like and that can be bad. There are ethical limits to what we can do as individuals because our actions may impact on the well-being of others. Pollution is not our business alone, it is everyone's business.

If you claim to care about the environment and that you do your best (or even better than others) you need to accept to be held against the light of critical scrutiny in regard to your ecological impact. Most certainly, no individual's situation is easy to analyze or compare with others. Nevertheless, it can be analyzed and just because you do not like the results does not mean it should not be done.

Cut and dry: A SUV is generally a large, heavy, highly powered vehicle with a rather inefficient engine when it comes to gasoline consumption per vehicle (not per horsepower). The utility value of an SUV cannot be denied and today`s modern lives are difficult to live if you refuse the transportation conveniences offered by those sort of vehicles. Much of this life-style developed as a result of the development and marketing of these vehicles. Soccer Moms may have existed before the minivan or SUV, but it really took off after it became more convenient with the help of the development of SUVs and minivans. In the past people put their stuff on top of their cars, not inside.

To continue this further, the problem with the SUV is neither the U, nor the V. The problem is the S. Utility vehicles exist for a long time and have existed way before the SUV came along. The first Landrovers had little horse power and successfully crossed the Sahara loaded with survival gear and equipment. The problem today is that we expect to drive such vehicles as if they are sports cars or luxury vehicles. They are loaded which makes them heavy. They are driven hard and, combined with their mass, are inefficient as a result.

The other problem is luxury and size. Before the SUV, there were station wagons. Other than 4-wheel drive and size, they offered what an SUV can do. Sure, less conveniently, less room, less sporty, less heavy, just as inefficient, and with less status. The large station wagon was replaced and with it disappeared the willingness to pack kids tight into a car, load the roof with stuff, have less stuff, etc. We have gotten lazy and spoiled.

Most US-Americans are used to the SUV as part of their life-style. They are not needed unless you like to live this life. This is of course easier said than done since it is hard to just disconnect yourself and risk being considered an outcast or weird. No doubt, not being able to participate equally is difficult for most adults and children. Nevertheless, it is true. Just look at other places that you could consider comfortable. Europe for instance. Much fewer SUVs or even minivans. Do they live a horrible live? No, they don't. Do they have a completely different infrastructure? Yes they do, but that is not a result of the unavailability of the SUV there. Even in Canada there seem to be fewer SUVs. And they sure do not live badly. Gas is and was much more expensive there as long as I can think. The monsters could not develop, as a result a life-style did not develop.

A SUV is a reflection of your life-style choices, not your needs. If you choose to drive a SUV please accept that you choose a vehicle that is less efficient than others. Keep it for a long time, drive it as rarely as possible, drive it defensively, don`t drive it alone. And work on your life-style that is dependent on your SUV. Without a SUV you may not be able to live your life as conveniently. You may not like the limits imposed on you by having only a small vehicle, but most likely you could do it. Much of it was done before the SUV. In the long run, once gas gets to be over $6 per gallon, you may say good-bye to your home in the mountains and say "hello again" to the ways of living your parents or grand-parents were used to.

I predict that large efficient utility vehicles will be developed more. Until then you may have to wait and suffer hearing that your choices are poor in regard to the environment (even if they are understandable in regard to modern life and mainstream US-American's perception of feasibility, safety, or even freedom).

BTW, the Honda Element is large, relatively efficient, and has 4-wheel drive (which you really only need if you live in the mountains or hills). It won't give you a boost in status amongst those who still think that SUVs are cool though.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. We will not reduce our ecological impact by 80% without ending most of what we like to do in North America. You can continue convincing yourself that what you do is NEEDED, or you can look at what you do honestly and rationally and separate WANTS from NEEDS and begin changing. It won't be as comfortable as it was. Get used to it - The world is changing.

Karsten
--
http://polluteless.com
Practical Advice to Pollute Less

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Sorry, it did not seem to post it the first time. I worked it over and sent it again. I noticed it posted the first post so I decided to not confirm the second post. Did not help. Read the second post - it is better I think.

Karsten

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Karsten,

Good points and well written but most people just aren't with you and they aren't treehuggers. They're SUV driving moms going to Wholefoods to buy the organic milk. Come on, do we really want moms to do nothing or to do something. They won't ditch the SUV or mini van. Okay maybe they would but not the hubby or visa versa. Since that isn't happening in the now I think that there needs to be more encouragment verses finger pointing.

I talk to the "common" mom all day everyday and I'm telling you they can't stand the idea of feeling they have to do everything. It just isn't pracitical and it's overwhelming. Anyone can get on a soap box and lecture and point fingers but it doesn't really do much for the cause and it sure the heck doesn't motivate or lead to anything good.

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I'm the poster from treehugger; imagine my surprise when I went out to get a Prius and came home with a Honda CRV. This was a remarkable experience and a complicated choice; going through it allowed me to deeply understand why 80 million Americans rely on an SUV.

While I do think we were a somewhat special case - we only drive only 6,000 miles a year, and had already eliminated all the 'non-necessary' trips - demonizing 80 million people is no way forward. Many of these people are now in a tight jam; financially, they have to make the SUV work, at least for a few more years. And the fact is, you can; cut your mileage in half, or get a paying customer for each and every trip. That's going to do a lot more to bring people together and save CO2 than going after 'change your lifestyle' arguments.

mark ontkush

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Karsten,

Wow...awesome posts! Your logic can't be denied.

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What I'm saying is that transportation is complicated, you should evaluate every bit of information you have, and then make the right decision for you. Admittedly, this is a conservative and practical approach. We aren't going to preach, moralize, and guilt billions of people into changing their behavior.

There's a big thread on treehugger on this with a lot of good comments on how people make car buying decisions.

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Karsten, I completely agree with you!

I've gone back and forth to which side I agree with there have been a lot of myths to why a SUV is best and and so on, but I do think if you are going to give out advice to the "common" mom to be more greener then I think you should be more "greener" than the common mom. I do think it's greenwashing.

I currently own an SUV (and my husband owns a moped scooter), but I bought the SUV before I educated myself on hybrids about 3 years ago. I feel guilty everyday, but unfortunately I cannot sell it because I have one more year to pay off on it. I have two kids (which a hybrid fits more than comfortably), and several pets and take a lot of road trips and will move to Colorado within 3 years and I will have a Hybrid within that time. Honestly after owning a SUV for 3 years I don't think I'll miss the SUV that much when I switch to a Hybrid. There is a lot of wasted space in my SUV unless I'm hauling my furbabies around or taking a road trip or bring home big items from yard sales or garden center. I've realized I could always rent an SUV or ask a friend with a truck to help if I need to do that in the future.

We've got to quit making excuses and do our part!

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Thanks for the advice Karsten! I did post a comment at the GCM website, but so far it has yet to be posted.

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Karsten, sorry GCM shut you down. I guess she couldn't understand where you were coming from. I didn't see you negative at all. Neutral, more like it. But I find G&CM as one of those trendy moms jumping on the greenwashing bandwagon trying to get other to validate her position of blogging about her green status rather actually living it. She doesn't understand the deeper meanings of living green and ethically yet. She's out for sponsorship and money through green blogging. But I'll keep reading to see how she progresses and how green she truly will get or if my gut feeling is right.

Her SUV debate was null anyways since she pawned the SUV selection off on her husband as if she didn't have a choice. I still wonder why she never posted my comment.

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